It's funny how much the Atzlan.net web site obsesses about Jews and Israel, both subjects logically which a potential Hispanic nation in the southwestern USA should have no concerns about.

The girls in the photo all need to get walking on the road to somewhere, fast.

I can't say that this photo makes my blood run cold with fear.

I wouldn't take these people so lightly more than likely these bozos are the cannon fodder for a much more dangerous group of people. I also would not be surprised if there were not the direct involvement of the Mexican government within this movement and more influental and powerful Mexican-Americans. Vincente Fox has voiced support for these kinds of groups in the past, and has not exactly been a stalwart ally when it comes not just to terror, but anything. The way Mexico looks at it, is if it can get Mexican-Americans believing that their interests and the interest of Mexico are the same then Mexico has a powerful voting block within the US proper, especially at the local and state level. Some Mexican-American politicans have voiced solidarity with the Mexico, and Vincente Fox has proposed making all US citizens of Mexican descent Mexicans citizens. This is unacceptable. It is an outright assault on American sovereignty. Some local governments in the SW that are controlled by Mexican-Americans are already ignoring the laws of the US when it comes to illegal immigrationWe can only hope that the FBI has the good sense to have infiltrated this organization with uncover agents. This situation if not kept in check could break out into open civil war one day, and maybe involve Mexico itself. The way I see it the US government by not taking a sterner position and the Mexican government by meddling directly with US affairs, not to mention US sovereignty, are playing with fire. I feel the behavior of MEChA borders on sedition.

This group is hostile to non-Mexican Hispanics. I know of a fellow who attended a Mecha meeting expecting Latino solidarity but found that they are exclusively pro-Mexican. They want to take back California and are doing a pretty good job. At least it is happening. If non-Mexican Hispanic voters learn they are not considered part of La Raza, it may affect their attitude toward Bustamonte. For that reason, don't expect coverage of the Mecha doctrine in the mainstream press.

The Mexican government will promote solidarity between native and expat Mexicans until the expats begin pressing for reforms; it will then cast them as anglicized race traitors. This is the same tactic that is employed by Mecha. Their definition of chicano is based on fealty to a rather esoteric set of principals , those Mexicans and Mexican Americans who don't endorse these principals and the goals which they inspire are by definition not chicanos.

also I think that the reason that we're not hearing more about Bustamante's ties to Mecha is due to popular assumptions surrounding the intellectual and moral capacities of Mexicans. Many on both the left and right regard Hispanics as primitives. The fact that Hispanics might endorse race nationalism is therefore not surprising , or even noteworthy , because that's what primitive people do.

Aztlan.net is not affiliated with MEChA.

"Nazi-like founding documents?" You mean this?

Hmmm. I guess that means you support Peter Uberroth or Sen. McLintock, or even are opposed to the recall altogether, right?

After all, Arnold has quite a few ties to white supremacists and REAL Nazi's himself.

Like Kurt Waldheim, to take one example.

Oh wait...maybe you are just a GOP shill, who does't REALLY care about all this stuff, and are trying to advance your political agenda?

Yup.

I read the "Nazi-like" documets you are referring to, and while they are a bit over-the-top, they in no way come close to your description.

Incidentally, why did you boldface the following words...

"I will fight the US for Aztlan"

...in the statement from the "what are the student[] in MEChA" like today segement of your Schwarzenegger campaign propaganda...er "blog post?"

Are you implying that this standard phrase of committment to one's beliefs [you see Bush and just about every other Presidential candidate saying they will "fight" for this or that program or policy nearly every day] somehow means that this person is willing to take up arms against the U.S.?

You can't be that stupid, can you? Or maybe you are just dishonest?

And, since when does this ONE person, assuming your implication about his statement is even correct, represent ALL past and current MEChA members?

More idiocy.dishonesty on your part.

And yet, Glenn Reynolds linked to your piece of sh*t blog as though you were saying something intelligent and/or important.

You're nothing but a partisan hack.

You bootstrap so many innnuendoes and assumptions together that your "logic" makes Rube Goldberg look like an aerospace engineer.

We had this covered over at Right on the Left Beach on Saturday. See also Tacitus.

Hesiod, you're a really a tool. Were this a GOP candidate who belonged to a college organization with the slogan "for the whites, everything; for the non-whites, nothing" and with documents actually advocating "racial cleansing" you would sing a different tune, I am sure.

I'm amazed at the non-reaction by liberals and the press at the "nigger" comment by Bustamonte, as well. There's another one where a person affiliated with a different political party would be torn limb from limb.

Its amazing how much debauchery and outright "bad stuff" the left will accept from a political leader provided he has the right letter appended to his name.

That's why I'll continue to be a registered Democrat, casting my primary votes for the least electable candidates, but my final vote in November will go to the GOP. Its sad to feel so much in common with what used to be the liberal social agenda, only to find that much of your political party is filled with race baiters, America haters, and appeasment specialists who would get us all killed rather than take a tough stand on something. I hope someday I get to vote democrat again, but I doubt it will happen anytime soon.

Leftist Guideline for Political Discussion Number ONE: If a person makes a point based on facts that hurts your leftist cause, then call the person names, label them a [select one: Nazi, racist, sexist, right wing hack, GOP shill] and follow up by insulting the person's intelligence.

See Hesiod's comments for an example of use of this discussion strategy adroitly carried out to perfection.

Thanks for proving me right, guys.

You are nothing but a bunch of dishonest, GOP hacks.

I made SEVERAL substantive critcisms of this post, whcih were duly ignored in favor of the insults [deserved, as it turns out].

Also, accusing me of hypocrisy does NOT refute my substantive attack on this hack piece of GOP propaganda blog entry.

Nice try, morons.

But you lose again.

Okay, Hesiod, I have to acknowledge that you're a pretty smart guy after all. Smart enough, that is, to spew your puerile nonsense and make your ad hominem attacks under the cover of anonymity.

Hesiod,

Your substantive points refute themselves.

For example, you say that when the MECHa member speaks of "fighting" for Aztlan, that he must mean that as a "standard phrase of committment to one's beliefs." You claim that Stevan is a GOP shill for taking this as an indication that this particular Mechista advocates taking up arms against the USofA.

But, uh, the part of that guy's poem right before makes clear what sort of "fight" the guy has in mind, and he's CLEARLY talking about, YES, taking up arms in the vietnam conflict. I don't know what kind of poet the kid is, but it would be pretty poor form indeed to set up a poetic allusion between a past fight and a current/future fight, but to secretly mean different kinds of fighting.

At the very least, he's saying he values his "bronzeness" more than he values his role as an American. I've heard stuff like that before, of course: From the KKK, David Duke, and Aryan "Nation." (Oh oh!! Look!! Another "nationalistic" movement based solely on race~!!)

By the way, the discussion of your hypocricy WAS a substantive response; you're just to thick to see that.

You posted a link to the Mecha document that contains the "for those of the race, everything; for those not of the race nothing" quote. You said comparing that document to Nazi beliefs was overreaching. I challenged your statement by pointing out that in another context we all could easily imagine, I believe such a statement WOULD, in fact, be a problem for you. You now have the burden in this debate of explaining to me (1) whether you'd likewise support a white candidate in the south who was a member of an organization in which the "for us everything, for them nothing" moniker referenced "whiteness"; and (2) if not, how you distinguish between the two situations. In this way, you test my proposition that you're a hypocrit and I test your proposition that we're "GOP hacks" for expressing concern about this.

If you post a justification for viewing the situations differently, then it will be up to me to try and evaluate your reasons to see whether they are true and solid, or simply a pretext for "Bustamonte is a liberal democrat, therefor he gets a pass on things I'd attack from other candidates."

Its called the socratic method, and you're not very good at it, methinks.

PS. I still think you're a tool.

Really Hesiod? Was there substance in your post? Can you repeat that lefy dance one more time?
Or do you want to restate your "substantive" criticsms without the trash talk so that we can all see what your criticism is?

Too funny, You just can't make this stuff up.

We Anglos oppress these MEChA girls any more and they won't be able to squeeze their bellies into their jeans.

Any Latinos out there pining to become part of Mexico, I suggest you catch Grayhound and head due south.

What's amazing to me is the absolute disconnect that exists on college campuses:

On the one hand, we've got admission policies that give "diversity" points based on the desire to have a well rounded student body that contributes to a color-blind society by showing little white janey and little white joey that their colleagues of color are also good people; and

On the OTHER hand we have the latino kids being given "their own" club with a race-nationalistic, separatist, secessionist, racist, revolutionary, racial cleansing supportive agenda. We also have universities with "Latino dorms" and "African American" dorms and other voluntary jim-crow like policies which keep apart the kids we claim to want to admit for purposes of letting all the youngsters' rub elbows and appreciate the true benefits of multiculturalism.

So much for diversity being a means to further the melting pot.

Yep Gonzo: From MEChA's Philosophy declaration:

"Chicanismo involves a personal decision to reject assimilation and work towards the preservation of our cultural heritage. Recognizing that all people are potential Chicanas and Chicanos, we encourage those interested in developing a total commitment to our movement for self-determination for the people of Aztlán to join Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlán."

So, THIS is the hesiod that Marduk is talking about....NOW, I know why Marduk calls him a fuckwit! LMAO

Elsewhere in the Philosophy of MEChA,

"Despite growing repression and a lack of progress by our people in this society, we must be optimistic. As, M.E.Ch.A., we must accept the challenge to combat all forms of oppression, and manifestations as experienced through racism, sexism, and homophobia, both inside and outside of our Movement."

Yep, it's a racist, sexist, homophobic movement . . . that pledges to fight racism, sexism, and homophobia.

It's odd how dear Stefan is so focused on Cruz and not on Arnold. Really looking forward to that post, buddy. You seem to be so concerned about anti-semitism and Nazism, yet you don't have any posts on dear ol' Kurt? Quite odd. Or maybe you're just a hypocrite.

Drew, the statement that you quote does not negate the racial separatist nature of MEChA. I run into lefties all the time that believe the left owns the word "racism".

To that ilk, "racism" can go only one direction - whites that hate other racial groups. Those lefties simply see nothing wrong with the reverse, a non-white that hates whites is not a "racist". That hate by non-whites is viewed by many lefties as justified by decades of oppression. It's part of the Chomskite blame America view - and non-whites are not blameable.

The purpose of the exerpt from the MEChA Philosophy is two fold. First it is campus diversity speak to fit into the PC necessary to obtain university support of MEChA student groups. Second, they most likely do not define their racial separatist agenda as "racism" because being non-white they can't be "racists".

The first purpose is fraudulent and the second is hypocracy.

Their combating of all forms of "oppression" means combating "oppression" against themselves. If you read the entire Philosophy. They make it exquisitly clear that MEChA is for Mechistas and against all others.

Mecha seems to be a Mexican supremacy movement. As a Mexican-American, I am disgusted by their ideas. I find the whole love affair with Castro disgusting. Why is there no solidarity with those fleeing Cuba in despair, are they not Latinos too? They talk the communist manifesto bullshit, not a big seller in my book, considering most people eagerly fled communist countries when they could. I read their "plans" and it is basically about excluding Europeans or decendant of, that seems racist. I do not know a single Spaniard alive today who was kicking it with Cortez, so not sure why any European or decendant alive would be excluded.

The members seem to be just kids, impressionable ones, who want to be a part of something. Not much of a threat. The threat is that their ideas get a pass because they come from a minority group. I do not like those ideas from the KKK or from people who look like me, plain and simple.

Arash,
In what way do Schwartzenegger's FATHER'S beliefs relate to Bustamente's beliefs? Bustamente is a candidate for governor in California; Arnold's father is not.

If you want to drag the odious politics of the parents of politicians into play, whay don't we talk about Joseph Kennedy, who was sympathetic to Germany prior to World War II. Yet fat Teddy is still representing the People's Republic of Massechusetts, and little Joey represents its sattelite of Rhode Island.

Here in the United States, we don't hold the sins of the father against the children; stop trying to smear Schwartzenegger by tying him to views he's never claimed to endorse. Bustamente implicitly endorsed MeCHA's views as a member of the group, and his continued support for them implies support for their racist, homophobic, marxist, anti-American agenda.

Sorry for being so long-winded, Stefan; I had to get that out of my system.

Look everybody,

We need Hesiod like a doctor needs disease. We get a chance to show our stuff. Avoid the name calling and stick to the arguments. They're quite sufficient. Also, the poor bastard might go away, and then where would we all be?

Here's a link to more MECHa in their own words:

http://www.americanpatrol.org/MECHA/020308OREILLY-MECHA/OReillyMEChA020308.ram

Its from when MECHa folks allegedly stole 3000 newspapers critical of MECHa from a republican student group at (where else) Berkley.

So O'Reilly has reps from both groups on, including this pretty illuminating exchange with the Mechista:

Gochez: We are the nation of Aztlan.

O'Reilly: Allright, that's good, you are the nation of Aztlan. That's great. Do you want your own territory? Do you want them to give you some land?

Gochez: We understand that we are sitting on stolen land. This is indigenous land. This is native land, you know, Mexicano land.

O'Reilly: So if I gave you Arizona would you be happy with that?

Gochez: They took a lot more than Arizona.

O'Reilly: So you want more than that.

Timekeeper said:

In what way do Schwartzenegger's FATHER'S beliefs relate to Bustamente's beliefs? Bustamente is a candidate for governor in California; Arnold's father is not.

Kurt Waldheim was an telligence officer in Germany's Army Group E when it committed mass murder of Jews in the Kozara region of western Bosnia. Yet, you think Cruz's ties to a alleged "Hispanic supremacist group" and Ted Kennedy father's views are more important? You have a problem with anti-Semites but not with actual Jew-murdering Nazis? And no, Kurt was not Arnold's father: he was Arnold's best friend. Apparently, Arnold still "loves Kurt" and Arnold just loves praising Adolf Hitler during his movies.

You have a problem with Cruz? If so, you should have an even bigger problem with Arnold. Do you want Cruz to denounce Mecha? Than make Arnold denounce Kurt.

I've dealt with Aztlan.net, and one person there. They are not mecha and mecha are not aztlan.net. Aztlan.net are a group of paraonid chicano nationalists with an anti-semitic streak. They hate gays. The hate a lot of people in the chicano academic world. They are just haters.

FYI - at least one of them is an angry engineer, so, maybe you all can bond on that point.

Sorry to be so anonymous here, but I need to play safe with people like you :)

Again: Voz de Aztlán is different from Mecha. They're not the same thing.

This mecha group is really stupid and arrogant. They actually think if they capture aztlan it will still remain a paradise.
Buildings will deteriorate, disease will spread, famine will finnish them off, and America wont be there to save them.
Let us sit back and relax while mecha digs its own grave.
Im not as stupid and blind as some people here are. I know that mecha and voz de aztlan are the same stupid thing. You are just plain dumb if you cant see this.

Hello, have fun with easy blogging!

You website is very good!I will come next time !

:) Thank you!

As Lt. Governor, Mr. Bustamante had to take an oath to protect, perserve and defend the Constitutions of California and the United States. But if he truely believes in the Reconquest aspects of Aztlan, the two beiefs are opposed to one another. How can both beliefs be reconsiled. I AM NOT REFERRING TO HISPANIC AMERICANS LIVING IN LARGE NUMBERS IN THE U.S. SOUTHWEST. So please do not answer this question with the concept that by a mere demographic change, Aztlan will be philosophically realized. I AM ONLY REFERRING TO THE PHYSICAL SEPARATION OF CURRENT U.S. STATES.

Any views on this matter. Feel free to contact me at banshee77@hotmail.com.

Also, HackLondon's comment that all of the girls in the photo needed to get on a road fast (and presumably lose weight) is not accurate: some of the girls are hot. And one was at an adult party in Berkeley two years ago. Hot!

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Program on the emergence of civilization.

"14 species of large animals capable of domesitcation in the history of mankind.
13 from Europe, Asia and northern Africa.
None from the sub-Saharan African continent. "
Favor.
And disfavor.

They point out Africans’ failed attempts to domesticate the elephant and zebra, the latter being an animal they illustrate that had utmost importance for it's applicability in transformation from a hunting/gathering to agrarian-based civilization.

The roots of racism are not of this earth.

Austrailia, aboriginals:::No domesticable animals.

The North American continent had none. Now 99% of that population is gone.

AIDS in Africa.

Organizational Heirarchy
Heirarchical order, from top to bottom:

1. MUCK - perhaps have experienced multiple universal contractions (have seen multiple big bangs), creator of the artificial intelligence humans ignorantly refer to as "god"
2. Perhaps some mid-level alien management
3. Mafia (evil) aliens - runs day-to-day operations here and perhaps elsewhere (On planets where they approved evil.)

Terrestrial management:

4. Chinese/egyptians - this may be separated into the eastern and western worlds
5. Romans - they answer to the egyptians
6. Mafia - the real-world interface that constantly turns over generationally so as to reinforce the widely-held notion of mortality
7. Jews, corporation, women, politician - Evidence exisits to suggest mafia management over all these groups.

Survival of the favored.

Movies foreshadowing catastrophy
1985 James Bond View to a Kill 1989 San Francisco Loma Prieta earthquake.

Many Muslims are being used like the Germans and Japanese of wwii::being used to hurt others and envoke condemnation upon their people.

I wish I could find a source to educate many Muslim fundamentalists. Muhammad is alive. He is a man chosen like Jesus Christ and, due to his historical status, will live forever.

They can affect the weather and Hurricane Katrina was accomplished for many reasons and involves many interests, as anything this historical is::
1. Take heat off Sheenhan/Iraq, protecting profitable war machine/private war contracts
2. Gentrification. New Orleans median home price of $84k is among the lowest in major American cities, certainly among desirable cities.