March 31, 2003
The Shark Blog is Famous in Britain!

Sneering "journalist"-with-chip-on-shoulder John Sutherland of London's Guardian slams me for my recent commentary on bulldozer shahida Rachel Corrie

Martyrisation demands retaliatory demonisation. Having been bulldozed to death, Rachel was duly blogged to death. The front-page news stories came out on March 17. By the next day, sites such as the aptly-named SharkBlog (hosted by Stefan Sharkansky) were in full mephitic flow. The Shark himself led the charge with a riff on "The Prime of Miss Rachel Corrie", casting her as Mary MacGregor, the idiot girl in Muriel Spark's novel. She had committed "suicide by bulldozer" as deliberately as her Palestinian buddies with their body bombs.
(the entry he is referring to is here ) Sutherland closes
What have we come to? The speed with which this kind of devil's advocacy can now (thanks to the net) be mounted, its sheer unbridled violence and its moral irresponsibility are, to the thoughtful mind, more frightening than any of those WMDs for whose (dubious) existence Britons are, at this moment, laying down their lives. Stop the world: I want to log off.
Yeah, my blog is more violent and frightening than Saddam's chemical weapons, all right. These Europeasers must either seriously not give a shit about all the truly horrible things that their hero in Baghdad does, or they must feel terribly impotent in the face of overwhelming success by the American British coalition, or both. Otherwise, why would a big newspaper like the Guardian lash out at a little ole' blogger like me???

Charles Johnson also has a nice response to John Sutherland.

UPDATE Bill Herbert traces some of Sutherland's arguments to discredit the criticism of Rachel Corrie to the "Vanguard News Network" (www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com, slogan: "No Jews, Just Right"). That would fit. I came across another self-described "American Nazi" who created a "Tribute to Rachel Corrie" ( http://www.geocities.com/jabpagec/posts/corrie.html )

Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at March 31, 2003 07:18 AM
Comments

Stefan, you better start believing just how good a blog yours is. Myself, living in London I'd rather read your comments and analysis and take your punches over any Guradian/Independent BBC drivel anyday.

Keep it up
yasha koach to you.
Jen

Posted by: jen on March 31, 2003 04:56 AM

Stefan,

I just started reading blogs and came across this article with its link to you.

I suggest you send a congratulatory note to the guardian for helping publicize your site.

Great work and keep it up. Your site is now prominent on my favorites list.

Posted by: AlanS on March 31, 2003 06:48 AM

Stefan, I'm so jealous.

I wish I could be excoriated by Al-Guardian.

Dang. And I even titled a recent post, "Bulldoze some more of them."

Think Sutherland will head my way?

In all seriousness: Wow, you must be doing something right to make them so angry. Well done, Stefan.

Posted by: Meryl Yourish on March 31, 2003 08:43 AM

The bulldozer animation might have to return for a second encore...

Posted by: Laurence (Amish Tech Support) on March 31, 2003 06:56 PM

You might want to check out Israel Shamir's hagiography in www.gooff.com. They have a tendency to wipe this crap from their site when they are caught, so I have the entire article on my site.

Posted by: mardk on March 31, 2003 07:13 PM

It sounds like the Shark might need a good lawyer....good thing he keeps good company :-)

Bite on, Shark!

Posted by: ipsofacto on March 31, 2003 07:54 PM

While I certainly disagree with what Rachel Corrie did and the disgusting group she was working for, I'd like put in a postive word for The Evergreen State College - my alma mater, where I got my excellent computer science education. The school is very hands-on; you don't sit in lectures all day - if you're studying environmental science, you're out in a boat collecting water samples within the first few weeks of class; if you're a biology or chemistry student, you can get involved with actual funded research; if you are in computer science, you build circuits and write programs right away. This is a fantastic and challenging college that has produced thousands of productive graduates (including Matt Groening, Lynda Barry, Michael Richards, and most of the band Sleater-Kinney). Sure, it has a lefty granola campus culture, but lots of schools have, and most Evergreen students are working too hard to take much notice - I certainly was. Please don't let one dropout student convince you that the rest of us don't have any sense.

Posted by: Carolyn on March 31, 2003 09:02 PM

I thought the Goebbelsian was published in Manchester, not in London?

Seriously, the founding editor (C. P. Scott) must be spinning in his grave from the Stuermer propaganda getting published in his once-proud newspaper.

And the kooks of the far-"left" continue to prove how much they have in common with the extreme "right".

Posted by: Former Belgian on March 31, 2003 10:07 PM

I believe the horrible things that Saddam does is part of his appeal to "Europeasers."

Is it possible that Saddam films some of his atrocities and sells them in Europe and elsewhere? For all we know Chirac may be a collector of snuff films and has a standing order with Saddam.

Posted by: Chuck on March 31, 2003 10:35 PM

Cheers and huzzahs, dude.

Posted by: Richard Bennett on April 1, 2003 03:48 AM

Regardless of how you feel about her politics or the foolishness of her reported actions, the treatment of this young woman after her sad death almost defines poor taste; no wonder people feel disgust at the mean-spirited nature of some conservatives. And if you really believe that terrorists and militants are the only Palestinians who have their homes destroyed and property taken by Israel, then it seems fair-minded people are justified in wondering if we are dealing with more than one set of bigots and extremists here.

Posted by: EH on April 1, 2003 03:53 AM

Well isn't it special that you all have your little hate club going on. The one thing that seems to be missing from your brains as you label an activist (who appeared to be sick of seeing death and destruction going on over there) either a terrorist sympathizer or an anti-semite is this...what is the actual solution to the Palestinian/Israeli problem?

Oh, no you don't actually have any clue do you? Catchy little labels that pidgeon hole people's opinions right where YOU want them to be.

Man, I wish you people would go get the thinking parts of your brains out of that dusty jar that you keep on a shelf and use them. I won't even talk about the part of your brain that most people use to empathize with others because I sure you think that's evil.

The one thing that you can say for that young woman is that at least she had the courage of her convictions to go out and do something. And you soulless, pathetic, lazy, Internet critics refuse to even recognize the passion of her convictions that she'd put herself in harms way because you're "so right about everything." All you can do is call her names and make fun of death.

The one thing that I have noticed about these blogs is that they tend to feed on each other. Blog A's opinion is justifed by Blog B's opinion which is created because they read the opinion on Blog A. Circular Blog Syndrome.

Hey! Get your heads out of each others keisters and go read a book. Learn some history. Find some expert political analysis. Talk to someone who's lived there, on both sides of the issue. THEN form an opinion.

You probably won't do that, because it's harder to do than just coming up with an opinion and finding other like-minded bloggers to agree with you.

lazy.

Posted by: JAX on April 1, 2003 04:12 AM

Dear Jax,

I find your comments both ill-informed and patronising. Your condemnation of bloggers is based on shallow stereotyping and does not reflect the knowledge or qualifications of those who write on these sites.

I cannot speak for the others, but I can speak for myself. I have read many books (in English, Hebrew and Arabic - I also read German and French as well as a few other classical languages irrelevant for this subject) and I suspect that my daily contact with Israelis and Arabs are greater than yours, since some 70%-90% of my clients speak Arabic as their mother tongue. Moreover they represent a wide range of "Arabic" opinions, coming from Muslim, Beduin, Christian and Druze families. Some are very pro-Israel, some very antagonistic. Perhaps you can tell us of your day-to-day experiences with the Israeli-Palestinian Arabic population.

Moreover, I do not recall seeing the young lady, whose courage for her convictions you so highly praise, demonstrating against Palestinian human rights abuses, such as murderous massacres carried out against civilians. She and her friends would have surely been ideally placed and qualified to register such a protest. If Israelis and Jews feel little sorrow at her unfortunate death, it is because she and her associates demonstrated NO sorrow at our being murdered, and indeed identified themselves with the murderers. The photographs of Corrie herself hardly reflect the next Mother Theresa of Calcutta. I have never met a true saint who burnt flags in front of little children.

So spare us your patronising superiority, and feel free to drop me a line next time you read a book in Arabic, so that we can discuss its contents.

Ma`a salaamin.

addafada`.

Posted by: Ribbity Frog on April 1, 2003 04:40 AM

Congrats, Stefan. Keep up the good work. You're pissing off all the right people, as Sutherland's rant (and Jax's entry above) makes perfectly clear. "Passion" and "the courage of one's convictions" in support of a flawed or evil idea is not something automatically worthy of respect. Of course, this point is far too subtle to be appreciated by people whose moral education ground to an ignoble halt sometime during their sophomore year in college.

Posted by: Mike on April 1, 2003 04:56 AM

Carolyn - I think when Evergreen had Mumia as their commencement speaker, they cemented an impression that will be hard to erase.

Posted by: mark marshall on April 1, 2003 05:06 AM

Dear Ribbet Frog,
Great. Once again, I note that no actual discussion of a solution is on the table. Only a very well written resume of how superior you are than I am because I don't speak or read arabic.

Well, I'm sorry. I'm not an Arab. And my not speaking or reading Arabic or Hebrew do not make any knowedge that I aquire in English of French irrelevant.

I do however have regular contact with secular arabs and jews as my religous denomination includes both. And I do spend my time reading political analysis and trying to engage my mind in the study of history.

I am not suggesting that suicide bombing is a solution to any problem.

What I am suggesting is that limiting conversation to demonizing people is not helpful. Because it only leads to the Israeli version of the final solution.

Less judgement. More curiosity.

And Mike. You're wrong. NOTHING is automatically worthy of respect. But if you used your curiosity a little instead of slamming your moral certitude on things, you might have a better foundation to stand on instead of a cryptic analysis of people's "moral education" because I don't know what the hell that means. Is it some tradition based on religion, education, christianity? Who knows. It sounds good though when you get it off the cuff like that.

You people's lack of empathy is frightening.

Posted by: JAX on April 1, 2003 05:16 AM

Oh wow, Stefan - that last link you provide gives us ample evidence that Iraq had chemical weapons... fifteen years ago. Thanks, I must remember to be unequivocal in my support for the war now.

Posted by: mtv unplugged on April 1, 2003 05:44 AM

The point is not to demonstrate superiority. The point is to say that if I and other bloggers don't "buy in" to the simplistic Western view (shared by Ms. Corrie and her associates) of "good-guy/bad guy", it is not without reason. Moreover, I share the view expoused by Yehoshua Porat (a left-leaning expert on Palestinian nationalism) that what is important is not what the Palestinians are telling the west, nor what they are telling secular left-wing peace activists, but rather what they are telling themselves.

When Yasir Arafat stands in a mosque in South Africa six days after his triumphant return to Gaza and calls for Jihaad, when he invokes precedents from Islamic history to justify making temporary agreements for strategic advantage (with full intention of breaking them) and when Palestinian children's schoolbooks, the contents of which are dictated by the Fatah, promote hatred and war, it's very difficult to take seriously the words of peace being espoused by Palestinian spokesmen in the West.

What is true for Arafat is true for other parts of the Arabic world. I have mentioned on my website several examples in which the Arabic reporting in Arabic differs from THE SAME ARTICLE presented in English to the West. Stefan has posted recently a translation of an article in Al-Jazeera that proclaims the Iraqi's tremendous military successes in this war, even though they are based on falsehoods.

This is why the ability to read in Hebrew and Arabic is not merely a luxury, it is the prerequisite for any serious discussion about the Middle East. The Middle East as it appears in English is but a mere calque of the real Middle East, a pale and distorted reflection based upon misinformation and headline grabbing. The Guardian's refusal to believe that the pictures of Corrie were genuine is merely sympomatic of a general malaise in Western journalism, whereby uninformed journalists "run with the pack" and attempt to impose the accepted interpretations upon events. When the evidence is to the contrary, they claim that evidence is fake.

I agree that not all bloggers are masters of their subjects, and that many of the comments appearing on the blogs are crude and unsophisticated. However, they are often more honest than the literate but more pernicious writings of Guardian opinion writers.

The solution for the Middle East conflicts? Well now, that's for a whole blog, not merely for the Comments section...

Posted by: Ribbity Frog on April 1, 2003 06:15 AM

Yes MTV, Saddam is so much nicer nowadays.

Posted by: Warcrime on April 1, 2003 06:18 AM

I enjoy reading intelligent writings such as 'Ribbity Frog's'. Especially when some idiot tries to do a battle of 'higher knowlege'.
I'm one of those guys that's not real intelligent, but I know a turd when I smell one. I think I know 'Jax'.......his last name is 'Off'. He watches way to much 'MTV Unplugged'.

Posted by: Jeff B on April 1, 2003 06:47 AM

Ah, Ribbity Frog. It is so refreshing to get to the real part of the conversation. When that happens I find that I can agree with some of the statements that I read. The only thing that I vehemently do not agree with however is that one has to speak the language in order to have an opinion on a subject. Being bilingual, I understand the importance of language and the subtleties of translation, but if literature can be translated then an article about what some lying politician said can be too.

A very good blog would be one with unbiased translations of articles so that people who don't speak the language can feel confident in the quality of information that they are receiving.

Please feel free to use that idea. It might make you rich.

And if you feel like those of us who don't speak Arabic or Hebrew are being taken advantage of it is a perfect opportunity to make your case and to give those of us who don't speak Arabic or Hebrew a clearer picture than what we are currently getting.

Limiting the credibility of the discussion to those who speak the language seems not only elitist, but a means to avoid honest debate. Translation, although an art, is not rocket science.

I do not take the view that this is a good guy/bad guy thing. There is enough blood on everyone's hands that we have to help these parties extricate themselves from the mess instead of taking hardline sides. They clearly cannot do this on their own and for us to demonize instead of educate ourselves is a tragedy. And I for one am tired of watching my tax dollars go to support the disfunction in that region rather than work towards a solution.

And the hardliners just pick a side, unplug and operate on cruse control.

Posted by: JAX on April 1, 2003 07:21 AM

Touche Jeff B!

Any more potty humor for us while people are dying from exploding bombs.

When you pull a point worth discussing from that dustbin you call a brain come back.

My new slogan is "Busy hands are NOT the devil's playground. JAX-off for Peace!"

Posted by: JAX on April 1, 2003 07:32 AM

Ok f---er,you asked for it.

JAX-OFF wrote: "Ah, Ribbity Frog. It is so refreshing to get to the real part of the conversation. When that happens I find that I can agree with some of the statements that I read."

No, you just met someone that called you on your bullsh--!


JAXOFF said: "The only thing that I vehemently do not agree with however is that one has to speak the language in order to have an opinion on a subject. Being bilingual, I understand the importance of language and the subtleties of translation, but if literature can be translated then an article about what some lying politician said can be too."

That is not what 'Ribbity Frog' said. He's just merely (and far more politely than myself)pointing out that you don't know what you are talking about. We don't refer to a lot of articles for knowlege. Some articles are written by lap lappers which this page will point out to you with facts, not opinions.

JAXOFF said: "A very good blog would be one with unbiased translations of articles so that people who don't speak the language can feel confident in the quality of information that they are receiving."

That's why we all love to come here....by the way, why are you here??? Spreadin' love and peace???

JAXOFF said: "Please feel free to use that idea. It might make you rich."

He has, but I don't know how well it payin'. You're a little behind the times.

HJAXOFF said: "And if you feel like those of us who don't speak Arabic or Hebrew are being taken advantage of it is a perfect opportunity to make your case and to give those of us who don't speak Arabic or Hebrew a clearer picture than what we are currently getting."

Man you are f---ed up. He never said or insinuated that. You, after getting your brain's ass whipped, have tried to turn it into something else to hide that fact. He was just calling you on your bullsh--!

JAXOFF said: "Limiting the credibility of the discussion to those who speak the language seems not only elitist, but a means to avoid honest debate. Translation, although an art, is not rocket science."

Man, I think you need a translator. Where do you come up with this crap. I must have missed the rules on this page where you have to speak 'the language'. You just opened your mouth and got it slammed shut, in front of EVERYBODY, I might add. :)

JAXOFF said: "I do not take the view that this is a good guy/bad guy thing. There is enough blood on everyone's hands that we have to help these parties extricate themselves from the mess instead of taking hardline sides. They clearly cannot do this on their own and for us to demonize instead of educate ourselves is a tragedy."

It's not good guy /bad guy. It's honest people trying to do the right thing, and then there's the others that just do anything they can to f--- that up.


JAXOFF said: "And I for one am tired of watching my tax dollars go to support the disfunction in that region rather than work towards a solution."

Your measley tax dollars are working towards a final solution. You are part of the disfunction.

JAXOFF said: "And the hardliners just pick a side, unplug and operate on cruse control."

Typical liberal socialists. Your family would be proud of the 'side' you picked.


Posted by: Jeff B on April 1, 2003 08:25 AM

WOW Jeff B! That was awesome. The height of intelligent discussion. You got out enough profanity in that rant to make even me blush. Of course there was nothing in the dustbin but that huh?

Some of you people are so arrogant that you can't even be agreed with. You have so much hate stored up that it just can't wait to find someone to throw it on. Oh well, evolution can't solve everything I guess.

Do you have any other names you'd like to call me. You've already used up f--ker and socialist? That's generally where you people start. You could move on to maybe a nice racial epithet. I'm sure you know plenty.

Once again...if you stumble across anything worth discussing,...or discover that you have opposable thumbs,...let me know.

Posted by: JAX on April 1, 2003 08:47 AM

JAX OFF said: "WOW Jeff B! That was awesome. The height of intelligent discussion. You got out enough profanity in that rant to make even me blush. Of course there was nothing in the dustbin but that huh?"

Focus on 'profanity' (which I use as a vent when I encounter ignorance such as yours), instead of what I said. You got your BS shoved back down your throat by Ribbity Frog. You have nothing intelligent to say. Some REAL BIG words.....but nothing intelligent.

JAX OFF said: "Some of you people are so arrogant that you can't even be agreed with. You have so much hate stored up that it just can't wait to find someone to throw it on. Oh well, evolution can't solve everything I guess."

"you people"?? Is that racial??? :)
Normally, I'm the nicest guy in the world, but now that all the Socialists are popping up and ranting (as your letters above) their ignorance, yes, I am building a little hatred and I've found someone to throw it on."

JAX OFF said: "Do you have any other names you'd like to call me. You've already used up f--ker and socialist? That's generally where you people start. You could move on to maybe a nice racial epithet. I'm sure you know plenty."

Yes, I do have other names. Just because I've used those, doesn't mean I can't use them again, does it?? There you go with that "you people" again. I think you are the racist! :)

JAX OFF said, "Once again...if you stumble across anything worth discussing,...or discover that you have opposable thumbs,...let me know."

No, I'm just going to keep discussing you as long as you are loitering here. Speaking of thumbs, how do you type with one of yours up your .......let's see.....a nice word.....rear end.

I must go now. Happy surfing.

Posted by: Jeff B on April 1, 2003 09:40 AM

'Last word' says insty? I think not.

Sutherland adequately summarised what a terrified, attention-starved fuckwit you are, Stefan. And I guess that hurts, man.

Haha, THAT was your fifteen minutes.

Bye.

Posted by: Infidel on April 1, 2003 09:46 AM

Evergreen State College Alumni

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/07/26/48hours/murder/main303587.shtml

Evergreen, my alma mater also, boasts another infamous alumnus name scott scurlock.

Scott was a friend and fellow rower of a pilot gig (a 4 man boat with coxswain) had a wide circle of friends, he was also a drug dealer and a very successful bank robber. He committed suicide after his 18th or so robbery after being surround by police.

neither i nor any of his friends knew of his double life.

i lived across the street from his property. the house by the road was called the little grey house, his treehouse was deep in the woods

i lived in a student and hippie house called "sunny muffin" in memory of the sunflower muffins that were made and sold there.

a book was written about scott by ann rule called, "The End Of The Dream." and a two part tv special was made about him

i spent time in his incredible treehouse and often brought friends there with scott's permission while he was away.

his treehouse with a story by another friend can be viewed here

http://www.chelseagreen.com/Shelter/TreeHOutlaw.htm

david, now in mass.

Posted by: iceman on April 1, 2003 10:02 AM

Jax, if you would like an idea of why it is desirable to know or be acquainted with someone who can speak arabic I suggest that you look at www.memri.org. The things that you hear and read there are never reported in western papers.

Jeff, calling names only encourages dissenters to behave in a troll-like manner, it doesn't further discussion.

Posted by: Dennis P. on April 1, 2003 11:00 AM

Well said Jeffy. Now go play so the adults can have a conversation.

Ribbity Frog, your quote...

"I agree that not all bloggers are masters of their subjects, and that many of the comments appearing on the blogs are crude and unsophisticated. However, they are often more honest than the literate but more pernicious writings of Guardian opinion writers."

...was just given a very fine example. But I'm not so sure that the trait of honesty is sufficient enough for praise. If you go to the zoo and an ape slings a big piece of his poop at you he was honest, but he didn't say much worth noting because he wasn't rational.

And I would submit that the "Jeff B types" (not that our own Jeff B isn't a darling because I love him too) of the world who have really strong and honest opinions don't tend to be terribly rational people so there's not much of a chance for a MEANINGFUL exchange of ideas. They should just throw poop. And a lot of that goes on in these blogs I'm sorry to say.

I think that my initial point was this. It is disturbing to think someone could be so closed-minded that when someone else gives up their life for what they believe in, that the closed-minded group not only refuses to do a small sanity check, but they happily revel in the person's death.

My belief system and my religion do not allow me that luxury and they don't allow me the luxury of tolerating that kind of behavior.

To be so harsh in one's judgement as to not even be *willing* to take a step back to see if this person saw or knew something that none of the rest of us knew speaks volumes about where we are today and where we're headed. Tragic.

People, particularly Americans, don't walk around dying for any old cause when they can be out at the shopping mall buying crap that they don't need and getting fat off of ding-dongs. And everything that I've read of this young lady suggests that she knew she was in a great deal of danger doing what she was doing.

So instead of hanging out at the mall, she was in front of a bulldozer doing something controversial, and as far as I've read she took no life or harmed anyone. She just frustrated the powers that be. Good for her.

I don't typically hang out at this blog or any other blog for that matter, so rest assured I will eventually disappear in the background noise as quickly as I emerged and allow the vitriol to continue without me. Although, I guess if no one disagrees with each other, there's not anyone to hate.

Let the poop throwing continue unabated!

Posted by: JAX on April 1, 2003 11:24 AM

Dennis P. Thanks for the info. I will head over there as soon as I get a chance.

Posted by: JAX on April 1, 2003 11:32 AM

Poor 'JAX' thinks it's unfair that others are calling him rude names. He seems to have forgotten that his very first message accused just about everyone else on this thread of having their heads up each others keisters, never having read a book, and keeping parts of their brains in jars on shelves, among other things. That makes JAX an intellectual bully: he can dish out the abuse, but he can't take it. He should go away and come back when he's willing to participate in a grown-up argument. That would start with an apology for his first message.

Posted by: Dr. Weevil on April 1, 2003 02:17 PM

YIKES! Now there's weevil throwing! Poor me.

Posted by: JAX on April 1, 2003 02:49 PM

Recycle Rachel!
See my post(ers)"INHUMANE SHIELDS"
Hiding stains while terror reigns...
Bleeding Hearts - Bloody Hands

(Please scroll to Wednesday, March 19, 2003)

Posted by: Malthusiast on April 1, 2003 02:52 PM

Mark Marshall - I suppose that's true. Here's the Mumia story: Mumia was actually the student's second choice, probably not voted for by that many students, but there was some mix-up (someone said the state Governor couldn't make the date). When it was eventually cleared up they planned to have both, but the Governor refused, so they went with Mumia (who of course couldn't attend, but they played a 13-minute taped speech).

Many students protested, some by walking out, some by standing up and turning their backs. Some applauded. It sounds like the ceremony was crowded with non-student protestors on both sides.

iceman, greetings. Quite a story!

Posted by: Carolyn on April 1, 2003 03:00 PM

JAX, I agree that some people called Ms. Corrie things she was not. But I went through the news reports that quoted the people there using quotes from that day and I am angry at the crap the day after, including IMS headquarters, that labelled it murder. I think they are showing just as much disrespect, if not more, by implying she was too stupid to get out of the way of a clumsy and slow-moving "murder weapon" like a bulldozer.

Pending investigation, the protestor's own words indicate it was an accident.

I had quite a discussion about it over at Japan Today with a young lady who, after we had about five posts each, agreed that I might be right about it being an accident but even if it was she would continue regarding it as murder. We agreed to disagree on the definition of murder...

Posted by: John Anderson on April 1, 2003 03:11 PM

I would like to give JAX a lesson in the real world.
I will vigorously strike him in the face. After every
three or four strikes, I would like him to affirm and to empathize with my rage. I want to him to facilitate my rage by being my punching bag. After all, I have my greivances against the world, and they need a target. He seems a good target. Help me JAX, I want to terrorize you. Please provide me with your name and address. I'll be right over.

Posted by: penn king on April 1, 2003 04:27 PM

Yeah,...John. I don't know. It's just sad. I don't have a lot of confidence that the Israeli government would do a great job on the investigation and it may be that it was an accident.

Those bulldozers have been known to knock houses down on people while they were actually in them though.

I've read reports that the house that was being bulldozed was because of a buffer zone that they were trying to create between a security wall that had been built. Apparently no actual terrorists or criminals resided in the building.

Yeah,...I don't know John, maybe it was an accident. But the meanness of the "she's so evil" crowd is just reprehensible. The girl's body is barely cold and an investigation is pending. Yet here they all parade with their mean-spirited moral certitude.

It's really sad.

Posted by: JAX on April 1, 2003 04:47 PM

JAX, appease me. I want to terrorize you. You are so empathetic and spiritually superior that I just know that you will empathize with my evil impulses. I've been handed alot of things I don't like. I know Americans like you are saintly, you will love me while I do evil to you. When I have done all that my hands and feet are capable of doing, you will love me. Let us begin a relationship JAX.

Posted by: penn king on April 1, 2003 04:48 PM

Now a threat. So much for freedom of speech. Thank god our soldiers are fighting for that one.

Violent, mean angry people.

Maybe it doesn't matter. People like being mean and angry.

Posted by: JAX on April 1, 2003 04:53 PM

Carolyn - point taken. I certainly don't blame Locke or predecessor for declining the shared stage, but the administration probably went to far to appease the campus left. Either way, to you I say - Go Geoducks!

Posted by: mark marshall on April 1, 2003 04:57 PM

Yes, JAX, I am mean, violent, and angry. So why not rally to my side? My greivances are just. You can really show the courage of your convictions, like Rachel Corrie did, rallying to the sides of suicide bombers and Saddam Hussein.You can rally to my side. I am not threatening, merely asking if you might oblige me. And you are right, Jax, people like being mean and angry. Similar to the meanness of Al Queda, and Saddam, and Hamas. There is no reasoning with them, Jax. You are realizing this. There is no reasoning with me. I want what I want.

Posted by: penn king on April 1, 2003 05:09 PM

Have you urinated on yourself, JAX? All your sophistication will not protect you in the face of evil, JAX. Will that God may eventually teach you that. I know JAX, the temptation to pomposity is, at times, overwhelming. That is why the only way for you to learn is by hard experience. It is so easy for a little chirping bird like yourself to criticize the world, so safe in your nest. It is what it is, and you are stuck with all the pain, JAX. I wish that I could transport you out of your comfortable whitebread house, no doubt in suburbia, JAX, to Israel, and test your superior love with mean, angry, suicide bombers.

Posted by: penn king on April 1, 2003 05:38 PM

Guys, nasty comments are self-affirming to leftists. It lets them wallow in the self pity of victimhood and reaffirms their ingrained opinion of conservatives and libertarians as evil and deluded respectively. You also give them free rein to say things like this,

"People, particularly Americans, don't walk around dying for any old cause when they can be out at the shopping mall buying crap that they don't need and getting fat off of ding-dongs."

and still be able to claim that they didn't instigate it.

When you get one like Jax the best thing is to ignore the snide comments and try the facts. If that doesn't work, ignore them since they are usually so ideologically blinded that they refuse to see any viewpoint but their own.

Posted by: Dennis P. on April 1, 2003 06:36 PM

JAX and self pity. He is no victim. He is a punk playing a game. He is trendy and fashionably cynical. He is fashionably alienated. He is a poser. He is also completely ignorant about what he speaks.
That was the purpose of my little Devils' advocate. People like JAX have no answer to evil. JAX only likes brutal dictators, suicide bombers, sadists, criminals, et.al. as long as they are doing onto someone else. When his sniveling little ass might be in trouble he will hide behind someone braver than him. I've spent too many years in the emergency room looking at the handy work of people who kill, rape, and torture. The kind of murderous proles that JAX will defend from a safe distance.
As I said before, JAX is a poser. He knows not the slightest thing about murder, torture, rape, or death. That is why he can defend terrorism in his glib affected manner.

Posted by: penn king on April 1, 2003 08:29 PM

I am not suggesting that John Sutherland's article was very convincing in anyway whatsoever, but I do believe all these "rebuttals" to his article leave out some of the most importants comments being made. First and foremost, referring to the building as one being made for bombs is simply irresponsible. The author of that letter did not even take the time to research why the IDF was destroying it - and I assume you already know, that it was not being destroyed for "bomb-making" reasons. The fact that people claimed she deserved to die is a fairly frightening commentary on social morals. I don't even know why I bother - it seems like there is a circle of people who pat each other on the back for their "rebuttals" without a single response that points out flaws in the rebuttal.

Please write something regarding the comments made about Rachel's death - surely you must disagree with those?

Posted by: TJ on April 2, 2003 06:07 PM

Where's JAX???? Must have had a protest march somewhere.

Posted by: Pitbull on April 3, 2003 06:30 PM

Rachel Corrie......young and dumb. We were all young and dumb at some time. (I guess I shouldn't say 'all'. Some people slide through their early adulthood without missing a beat.) Young people such as Rachel Corrie have no experience in real life. They have no experience to objectively disect an issue. Some liberal socialist professor somewhere influences them and they run with the 'cause'. Most young adults sort things out before they get too deep into a radical situation. Some unfortunately don't. I feel sorry for her family. I feel sorry for her in the respect that she didn't live long enough for someone to slap some sense into her. However, I don't doubt the picture of her burning the paper flag is legitimate. It fits perfectly with her mindset. Do I feel sorry for her because she didn't have time to make a last minute, (or in the case of a 'high speed' bulldozer) a last hour decision to get out of the way??????? I shed nary a tear.

Posted by: Pitbull on April 4, 2003 05:25 AM

Read the article Stefan linked to. Corrie's bulldozer wasn't even planning to demolish that house, it was cruising all day feeling for mines.

Posted by: Yehudit on April 6, 2003 05:03 AM

Yehudit is right. I found a picture that shows the surrounding area where she is laying there squashed. It's no where near a house.

Posted by: Pitbull on April 6, 2003 07:16 PM
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