As pathetic as this woman was, she does give me a perverse sense of cultural superiority as an American. Palestinians have their misguided suicide "martyrs" and we have ours, but at least our would-be martyrs don't take down innocent victims with them.

DId she ever do any actual good for even one other person? Or was her heroic stance just a form of indulgence?

Rachel:

Fox interviewed Corrie about a week before her death. Corrie stated that she was sometimes able to stop the bulldozers long enough to allow the family to get their furniture out, and that she was getting the word out about the terrible occupation. Blah, Blah, Blah.

Fox did not challenge her on her incitement, burning of her country's flag and support of the murder of civilians.

The terms "peace activist" and "human rights activist" go too often unchallenged.

This deluded harpie did not want peace, she did not want human rights, she wanted victory. Victory for the enemies of America, victory for the enemies of the Jews, victory for the enemy of civilization.

"the enemy of civilization" is a pretty good description of a government that would send out 50 ton armored vehicles to bravely crush unarmed 100 pound women. All hail the
valiant IDF, crusher of harmless little girls.

I'm sure the soldier who drove that bulldozer will dine
out for the rest of his life, telling the gripping story
to his proud children and grandchildren. It's not
every 'war hero' who gets to crush the life out of
a defenseless woman with a hydraulic bulldozer blade.

Israel seems to be adopting the tactics China used in Tienemen Square.

I suppose the US is headed that way too: capitalist,
but not free in any meaningful way.

Thanks to you folks.

"DId she ever do any actual good for even one other person?"

Rachel:

If a 50 ton armored bulldozer, escorted by armed soldiers with no scruples about shooting unarmed civilians drove up to knock down your home, do you think you'd consider it "good" if a bystander from another country tried to prevent it, and managed to delay it for a while so you could safely leave, possibly carrying some prized possessions?

Or would it seem more 'good' if the bulldozer knocked down the place, with you in it?

"Israel seems to be adopting the tactics China used in Tienemen Square"

Let's see. Israel, a country of free people who cherish human rights and want only to live in peace. China, a country which murdered thousands of its own citizens, all of whom want to be free people who cherish human rights and to live in peace.

Yes, I can see the similarity Jon H. No. Not really. In fact I can't see it at all. Because there is no similarity. And, if you think you see one Jon, I suggest that you talk back to those voices in your head which keep telling you this kind of nonsense.

"Jon H", I'm sorry about whatever failure in your upbringing or brain development led you to believe that soldiers on a mission to prevent terrorism are supposed to take orders to step aside from college girls, no matter how winsome.

In any event, Rachel Corrie was about as helpful to the cause of world peace as are these idiots who are camping out in front of Iraqi oil refineries because they would rather die than see Saddam Hussein resign his office.

I wrote about this here, making some comparisons that might be enlightening to Jon H.

http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/2003_03_16_kesher_archive.html#200000659

John H is not interested in enlightenment.The shark has a troll.

Sometimes being stupid is fatal. This young woman appears to have been foolish to the point of stupidity. If this was the case, she did not deserve her death.

The other possibility is that she knew the difference between right and wrong, and aided the Palestinian terrorists anyway. This would have been evil.

We don't know what was in this woman's heart. But either way, stupid or evil, it is our lot to shine the light of reason on such useful idiots.

Yeah, you've got it exactly right: this poor dupe sacrificed her life so that her poseur profs back home might preen for the cameras. Here's how Evergreen State memorializes her:

>>Rachel, a senior at Evergreen, was most recently a student in “Labor and the Environment,” “Common Ground,” “Local Knowledge” and a contract entitled “Public Art and the Middle East Conflict.”

The person who executed that contract ought to think long and hard about the assumptions underlying it; about the wisdom of interjecting naive youths between warring parties in a battle zone. And to discern the connection between "public art" and the conflict of all things. That professor was criminally negligent. Might well be that self-same Therese Saliba mentioned in the post. She ought to have second thoughts, but she won't. Here's Saliba's proudly trumpeted background: "Therese Saliba is an Arab American feminist scholar and activist.... She is also producer, with Tom Wright, of the documentary, 'Checkpoint: The Palestinians After Oslo,' which examines the Oslo peace process and its devastating effects on Palestinian lives." Ah, an "activist" scholar. I'm sure she'll be available to speak lovingly on, Rachel Corrie: An American Martyr. (Made-for-TV movie by that title?)

And the scummy local group Olympians for Justice, whose propaganda (Olympians Oppose Sharon's Trail of Tears" -- sure, those Palestinians are Native Americans, and Sharon is just like the 7th Cavalry) undoubtedly influences idealistic youth like Rachel Corrie? Will it have second thoughts? Right.

It was heartbreaking to find out about the death of Rachel Corrie run over by an Israeli bulldozer in Gaza. What is troubling about it is that a young woman with a fiery personality would travel to a combat zone to put her and others in a very dangerous situation. What was Rachel Corrie doing in front of a bulldozer in Gaza from all places? Israel is an American ally and an American passport does insure a preferential treatment in that country. Unfortunately, when the bullets are flying it is hard to check the identity of a person. Our president, George W. Bush, has said that in a war “some unintended casualties are inevitable”.

Gaza is the hotbed for the Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, etc. terrorists, homicide bombers that perpetuate the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The demolition of houses, as unfortunate as it is, happens to be a necessary deterrent in the conflict against the terrorists. America has gone halfway across the world to fight the terrorist evil. Israel is fighting that evil right in her own backyard. It is known that Israel gives the civilians residing in the buildings an advance notice. The innocent Israeli and even some American citizens who were blown up into pieces by the homicide Palestinian Arab terrorists did not get such notices. The Palestinian Arab leadership has integrated the killings of the innocent civilians into their strategy to defeat and destroy Israel. This is a conflict that is being waged not just on the battlefield but also in the media. In fact, it is expected that Iraq will do exactly the same.

Activism is great! However, it must be combined with a good common sense of reality. Just because Israel is a democratic, open society with more reporters per square mile than any other place on this planet, there is no guarantee of safety when one departs for Gaza, the hub of the Hamas terrorists.

There are many other troubled spots in the world like Chechnya, the Indian province of Kashmir, Columbia, the Philippines, Nigeria, Somalia, etc., that require the activists’ attention. However, the networks cannot afford the liability insurance rates that are required to sent the reporters in there. Consequently, the reporting from such places is limited and does not generate the strong emotions.

The late Rachel Corrie had great and honorable intentions. Unfortunately she channeled them in the wrong direction.

Israel a free nation hmm let me see, OK lets work on a metric of press freedom, thats a good measure of the democratic nature of a country. On a ranking by reporters without borders, israel came out #92.
The loss of an life, a life that Judaism counts as the most precious thing in the world, has been perverted by the zionists, who fill this blog with hate, may G*d help you all, I as a Jew wish to have nothing about your hate

I am a mining engineer by education, not a heavy equipment operator. I can drive a DH-9 but really have no special operator skills. I would like to contribute a few observations. I have done many accident investigations at work.

First, eyewitnesses admit they had been obstructing the operation for 2 hours. This is not equipment meant to be operated around in a crowd of pedestrians.

Second, the treads on bulldozers can be called the crawlers. Top speed on any bulldozer is less than walking speed, working speed are MUCH less than walking speeds.

Third, visibility from the cab of a DH-9 is a lot less than you may think. You have a 9 foot tall blade in front of you and often a big ripper behind you. You can park a full size ½ ton pickup truck directly in front of (or behind) a DH-9 and you will not see it, nor would you ever feel it. I know for sure but that is another story.

From photos and accounts I would say she was not “run over” by the DH-9 treads. If she were run over by the treads there would have been almost nothing left of the body much less lived for any length of time. Instead she went under the blade. Using the eyewitness accounts of her companions she knelt in front center of the bulldozer where she would be LEAST visible. Kneeling would make her far less visible again and also far less mobile. Also using the photos it looks like the operator was cutting at least a foot of soil to cushion the blade and fill in the foundation of the building. The soil profile under that line would be “solid.” She got pinched between the “bottom” and the soil load.

Kneeling in front of a bulldozer is playing chicken. She hid from the operator’s view either by intention or lack of understanding. So the bulldozer is pushing a huge mound of earth in front of it and again by eyewitness accounts as the ground balled up under her she lost “footing” and rolled. Why not just stand up and walk away?

We may not agree on many things but like many Americans I may be more sympathetic then you suppose. But let us be accurate, this was suicide by bulldozer.

she was protecting what? terrorists and a a building used to make bombs to murder innocent civilians. she should burn in hell for an eternity.

Before everyone assumes this girl is "dumb" or "misguided," perhaps some of you can stop watching (insert mainstream media outlet here) and really dig into what has led to the problems in Israel.

We all know, for instance, that the Jews, Muslims, and even Christians have fought over the territory now known as Israel for a milenia, but this very fact makes the conflict a study in greys.

To overly simplify the situation by assuming the home being bulldozed belonged to a terrorist is rather presumptuous, and perhaps even inaccurate. The news accounts I read said it was built without a permit. But getting a such a permit in Gaza is nearly impossible as a Palestinian.

Also, some have pointed to the despicable acts of the suicide/homocide bombers as a justification for collective punishment (punishing an entire family for the offenses of a family member). But if you apply that logic, then why is Menachem Begin's home still standing? After all, he is implicated in blowing up the King David Hotel.

(http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/King_David.html).

The fact is, no ones hands are bloodless and there are people doing unethical things on both sides. Demeaning someone who's non-violent action led to death just because they disagree with your political viewpoint is easy. Searching for the truth is much more difficult.

Also, if you think Palestinians are the only ones who have killed innocent civilians in this conflict, you may want to check your facts.

Don't forget the terrorist bombing on July 6, 1938 killing 25 Arabs in Haifa. Or the killings less than three weeks later a Jewish bomb killed 39 Arabs in Haifa's melon market.

(http://csmweb2.emcweb.com/durable/2001/07/31/text/p1s3.html)

This does not justify todays suicide/homocide attacks by any means. All of these attacks are crimes against humanity. Unfortunately, the crimes of the past are obscured by the current crimes, so many have lost their perspective.

Rachel Corrie was in no way a "peeace activist" or "humanitarian". Read what really happened:

Wednesday, March 19, 2003
MAKOR RISHON March 21, 2003: Mis-captioned Reuters photo transforms accidental death into homicide.

TO BE PUBLISHED MAKOR RISHON, MARCH 21, 2003
(TRANSLATION TO FOLLOW)
(Reuters pix mentioned below can be e-mailed to you upon request
media@actcom.co.il)

DAVID BEDEIN
BUREAU CHIEF
ISRAEL RESOURCE NEWS AGENCY
BEIT AGRON INTERNATIONAL PRESS CENTER
JERUSALEM, ISRAEL
www.israelbehindthenews.com media@actcom.co.il

Mis-captioned Reuters photo transforms accidental death into homicide.

Joe Smith, age 21, came with his college friend Rachel Corrie this past
Sunday, March 16th to Gaza to protest against terrorist home demolitions as
part of his activity with the International Solidarity Movement.

Both Joe and Rachel had studied at Evergreen College in Olympia, Washington.

Joe was witness to Rachel's tragic death late that afternoon, and
described what he saw to my colleague , recounting that "she was sitting on
a mound of earth in front of the bulldozer. The earth started to move under
her when the bulldozer digs in. You have a couple of options you can roll
aside-you have to be very quick to get out of the way. You can fall back,
but she leaned forward to try to climb up on top. She got pulled down, and
the bulldozer lost sight of her.Then, without lifting the blade, he
reversed and she was underneath the blade". Joe Smith did not sound
accusatory nor vindictive against the IDF bulldozer driver.

So why did the world have a different impression of what had happened?

Well, a picture is worth a thousand words.

The picture distributed by the Reuters News Agency showed Rachel Corrie
standing in front of the Bulldozer with a megaphone. That is the picture
that appeared on page three of the New York Times on March 17, 2003

The Reuters caption stated what the picture said that this picture was
taken before Rachel Corrie was crushed by this bulldozer, giving the reader the distinct impression that Rachel Corrie had been standing with a
megaphone in clear sight of the bulldozer.

That would have made this act some kind of homicide.

The next photo distributed by Reuters showed Rachel lying in front of the
bulldozer.

And then I began to notice something.

The lighting of the Gaza sky was different in both pictures of what were
supposed to be sequential shots. The landscape in each picture was
different.

I checked with Reuters to find out about the discrepancy of the picture
sequence.. The Reuters photo editor said, however, that , these were NOT
their pictures. They were sent by the International Solidarity Movement.
Indeed, these pictures did appear on the ISM web site at
www.palsolidarity,org. The Reuters photo editor assured me, however, that
the pix were clearly labeled as ISM pictures. A check with the Reuters web
site showed that they were labeled as Reuters pix.

A call back to Joe Smith about the sequence of the pix revealed another
unknown fact. Smith said that no one was on the spot with a camera before
Rachel Corrie was mauled by the bulldozer, and that the picture of Rachel
with the megaphone had been taken many hours earlier...

I placed a call to Tim Heritage, bureau chief of Reuters, and asked him
about Reuters policy in using pictures from political groups that might
manipulate the media...

I gave him a heads up about the fact that Reuters had
issued the photo of Rachel Corrie standing alongside the bulldozer with a
megaphone.

Heritage said that he would look into the matter and asked for a call back.
I called back an hour later. Heritage was not available. However, all of
the Rachel Corrie/bulldozer pix had been wiped off of the Reuters web site.

Yet the damage was done.

The indelible image of a mauled "peace activist standing with a megaphone"
will not leave people's minds for many years to come.

Why do Palestinians become terrorists? Or are they born that way? Just born bad? Did something happen in their lives that made them so? Losing their homes? Their parents' homes? Their homeland? What would you do? Why are Israelis determined not to live with those whose land they've taken? Have Israelis really any choice? Where else would they, could they live? Can people who have live with those who have not? Only, if, as in America, those who have not have no idea why they have not, and no idea how to get it, but zone out and do as they are told. Not complaining, just how people work. Yet, still, Rachel was brave. Stupid you say. True, you were wise to be Jewish. Bless you. The others? That's their problem. This style of thinking creates real and powerful inner satisfaction. But from others, real and powerful hatred. Life is 'strange'. But for peace, love, joy, who can teach, who can learn: we are none more entitled than another. What does that mean? In daily, working terms? How would we rule differently? God bless us, everyone.

Thanks for the post, Steve.

While it does clarify the photos a bit, the conclusion you reach is not evident in the story you reference.

How does the fact that there are no "before" pictures of the incident back up your assertion that:

"Rachel Corrie was in no way a "peeace activist" or "humanitarian"."

Please explain? Was she wielding a weapon? Did she hurt other peeople in some way? Or is it that her polital views differ from yours?

I just don't understand the logic.

J

people are getting killed every day in america.i'm thankful she died.now it sheds light on what exactly are you deadheads trying to prove.that people that strap bombs to themselves are equal to israelis.how many more idiots are going to die over there,and flood the news with how stupid your kind really is.we have enough problems here.we could use your resources in america where the chances of being run over by a dozer are limited.shes lucky it wasnt a d12.i suppose now her family will try to sue caterpiller or the israeli govt.she could have lived a long healthy life here as a exotic dancer or prostitute.that way she could have died more slowly,maybe even with less pain.a word of advice to the rest of her team,come home before you bore me with the details of another idiots death.

I have seen it all from pro-israeli smugness!
To think that you could wilfully defend a tank driving over an unarmed woman, because she happens to be trying to prevent this tank from illegally destroying a legally built house.
"It is a poor memory to the victims of the holocaust to adopt the central doctrine of their murderers"
And that, my Israeli friends, is what is happening...

did any of you bone-head nazis ever stop to think for one minute just WHY people blow themselves up on buses of in busy shopping malls? perhaps the fact that these isreali racists cage them in, steal their land, reposses their resources and butcher their women and children may be provocation enough, or is that an absurd suggestion? you all talk like you know something about life because you hide behind a flag, and unite in it's lukewarm facade of pathetic fellowship.
maybe if any of you detached yourself from your computers for a second, scrape the cheese off your dicks and went out into the fresh air (scary prospect for some of you inbread skinheads) you'd see that your country does about as much for you as you do for it by sitting in front of a screen all day.
when was the last time george bush offered you a beer? when was the last time condeleeza rice cracked a joke at one of your parties? whe was the last time donald rumsfelt threw you a touchdown pass? and you think these people, with all the power in the world, give a flying fuck about you and your sad waste of lives?
here in northern ireland we are perfectly aware of the term "terrorism", but we don't go about giving them excuses to slaughter the innocents, but you seem to encourage them by ensuring that the average palestinean lives on less than the european cow, by treating them ALL as subhuman.
maybe you should all stop pretending that the stars and stripes is anything more than a piece of cheap, tarnished cloth, stained red with blood, bleached white with lies, and the stars are but pure fantasies of ontological bullshit that you call home.
and as for you guys supporting isreal, well, wasn't so long ago all you nazis wanted to exterminate all the jews.
i hope to whatever God exists that rachels parents or friends don't EVER EVER read this site.

Hey mick - have another Bushmill's on me. Then maybe you can see Nazis under your bed as well. I can understand your being a poor student of history, being self-absorbed Irish and all, but just remember - before Israel, nobody - least of all Arabs - gave a shatt about the Philistines. There were no "resources" there until the Jews - yes, the hated filching Jews that invade your nightmares - made the desert literally bloom. Jealousy and tribal hatred from biblical times drives this conflict. What drives you again? Oh that's right... Bushmill's.

First of all I hope that Rachel's parents read this site. I just want to say hi; and that at least you have the knowledge that she died painfully.
"did any of you bone-head nazis ever stop to think for one minute just WHY people blow themselves up on buses of in busy shopping malls?"
Because these satanic beasts (whether in Deerborn Satan arabia or anyother wicked allahic toiletbowl) are subhuman and have no souls.

That snapper wasn't a "War Hero" -- she was a "Peace Zero!"

One fact we must get straight. Palestine was never a country. Statehood was promised to them by Jordan - but that shit was forfieted when the Palestinian people fought with the envading Arab Nazis in the 6 Day War. You Leftist are so brainwashed it's sickening -- sending young American women to sit in front of a moving bulldozier and -- what -- bulldoziers aren't heavy?? Now that's some serious brainwashing. LOL

re: "Because these satanic beasts (whether in Deerborn Satan arabia or anyother wicked allahic toiletbowl) are subhuman and have no souls."

obviously this "law student" (nb. quote marks, possibly a lie, and if not this gentleman represents a farcical element in the american judicial system) is incapable of making any coherent argument based on reasoning and well informed facts and lucidly demonstrates his inadequacy in this public forum by posting an ignorant and absurd racist insult to a body of people of whom he has probably had no dealings with or direct contact involving.
also, i object to mark's opinion that the irish are pepetually drunk, but he is obviously better informed on the subject than me, as i only live in the country.

Rachel Corrie was a terrorist plain & simple. She should rot in Hell. I feel better that she is dead.

It seems the majority of people who have posted the most deprived comments here demonstrate that humanity is lacking in the world. To criticize the person murdered and not the state that constantly murders others demonstrates a lack of morality and depth of cogitation. What many have written here is tantamount to saying that people working in the World Trade Center should have known better than to work in tall buildings. Such foolish nonsense has been uttered by more intelligent people who designed the architecture and ethos of the Third Reich. But then, maybe so many Americans are morally depraved because they must face the ghosts of their own totalitarian government which robs them of an election (yet, Americans believe themselves to be the freest nation on the planet); foments lies to sponsor public support for a war; and now, in the face of no evidence for this terrorism waged by the USA in Iraq, Americans still sing that "we are the best country" song. Boring and clearly indicative of the decline of that empire.

If hatred and fear are the same emotion, it may be that Rachael Correy knew neither.

What in the world are the IDF doing in the Rafah refugee camp in the first place? It is in Gaza near the Egyptian border. They don't belong there. Go home!

Israel continues to be in violation of UN resolutions (at least 65 by my count). Bush, remember, went crazy over merely 16 UN resolutions violated by Saddam.

The demolition of civilian homes is an act of genocide that violates Articles 12 and 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and Articles 33, 53, and 54 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

By dying while protesting the such demolitions (in this instance the home of a doctor) Rachel is an American martyr for Palestine. Brava, Rachel.

One ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT HAVE TO AGREE with Israel's policies and the occupation to realize that Rachel Corrie did not use the best judgement, and, she unfortunately paid for that with her life.

Suicide by bulldozer? Glad she is dead? You guys are sick.

To John:
Wait a minute, John. Who are you calling sick??
You're not referring to ME, I hope, because I'M not glad that she's dead. I think it's unfortunate that she lost her life.

Personally, I am happy she is dead. Anyone stupid enough to stand in front of a bulldozer lol.....no, that action did not impress me in the least. Just showed me the stupidity of her.

Good riddance to ignorant rubbish.

This would be a sad event, it it wasn't for the surrounding truths.
1. Rachel was a anti America activist.
2. She was in a foreign country practicing anti American activism with people who hate America.
3. She burned the flag of her own country to inspire anti American feeling is a hostile land.
4. She was not neutral, she was there on the side of the terrorist against an American allie.
5. She exhibited poor judgement in standing in the way of a military operation.
6. She wrongly used her American citizenship to effect and persuade world affairs.
7. She was on the side of a group that openly hates and attacks Americans world wide.
8. She acted like a traitor, and died as a result.
9. Mindless liberal activism has it boundries, cross them, and you pay the piper.
10. She is a shinning example of liberal parenting and value impaired examples. She championed a cause that was on the wrong side of American interests...and died a traitor.

I still stand by my position that the occupation of the WEST BANK, GAZA and EAST JERUSALEM is not good for Israel--and it should be ended.
While it's true that Rachel Corrie definitely did NOT use the best judgement when she chose to prostrate herself before a huge, huge piece of machinery, she did NOT deserve to lose her life.

Why don't you be just half as brave as Rachel and go to Palestine and see for yourself exactly what is the wretched truth. I was just there, but because we Americans have become such a compassionless throng of people, I won't even bother to tell you the horrors I saw inflicted on Palestinians, because -- like the cruel people you are -- it would make you laugh.

Why don't you go tell a US service women that she deserved to die because she was stupid enough to join "a cause!" You would never do that, because you are too hypocritical.

Too bad you feel the need to defend a foreign force that killed an American, because you are so brainwashed and afraid of everything, that all you see are terrorists everywhere.

I will tell you one more thing: I did not meet one anti-American Palestinian, but the Israeli forces told me many times that they hate Americans and that we don't send them enough money (only 17 million a day)! If Israel is such a good ally of the USA, name what have they done to help us? It seems this is a one-way love affair.

Anyway, it's cheap and pretty safe to fly now, so be brave and enter the "land of terrorists" and try to get yourself through the Israeli airport and checkpoints and border police. Then tell me how you feel, describe what you saw, and tell me who the greater terrorists really are. There is such a thing as State Terrorism, you know. It just gets overlooked a lot in the press, and you are not clever enough to see through it. One week trip to Palestine should educate you for life.

Please don't call Rachel a coward, or anything else derogative, until you've walked those war-torn streets.

Wait a minute, Paula Marie! Who are you talking to here??

Paula Marie, even if you spent time ove in Palestine(which is great), I think that the amount of time(which was how long?one month? two?) you had spent there was your own brainwashing period. I live in Israel, I have friends on both sides. Both sides want peace. But thanks to "over-priveleged" people like Rachel Carrie, and construitive media, each person has their own biased opinion. If one individual decides to act upon it, so be it, just remember that the cause you stand up for may take your life. Becoming militant and angry? Please continue to be and realize that the best you can do for both sides is to support dialogue, because both sides are going nowhere else except staying in their land, and damned be a flag-burning wannabe terrorist.

Although I STILL stand by my positions, Zaki, I believe you've made some very strong points that are well taken. Although I don[t believe that Rachel Corrie was a terrorist and deserved to lose her life, I do believe that she didn't use the best judgement when she stood before a huge, huge piece of machiner, which, tragically, contributed to the loss of her life. I agree that most people on both sides support peace and dialogue.

I can't believe that people of the world talk shit about what happened on March 16th like there was anything but a murder. Thank you John and the rest of you who see the light that was shining, and the light that went out on that day. Those of you who think that there was a misstep that day were wrong. The death there was a new breath in the actual peace movement. Just because militants feel comfortable killing kids doesn't make it right. March 16th wow, comin at you Monsanto. Step aside. Breath. Retire. Stop. That's what there was murder for, ceaseless greed and the lenths allowable. Not crazyness on the part of a girl. She was standing in the way of a bulldozer trying to crush the home of a pediatrician for God's sake.
Or was that the sake of the people of Palistine... That's right Palistine, the internationally recognised nation to the North of Egypt. Isriel is on foerign land killing people. That is a crime.